Sunday, June 21, 2009

Guest Posting: Kiryat Yoel and the Tish

B"H

A couple of weeks ago I took my forth trip to the Satmar village of Kiryas Yoel in upstate New York. I’m not sure why I keep torturing myself by going back. I think it has something to do with the Rabbi I stay with. This is a man, who when he’s not teaching in the yeshiva, is up and down the state of New York doing the type of chesed and kiruv work that almost no one would do. I don’t want to say what he does exactly and give away his identity, but let’s just say that he loves every Jew regardless of upbringing or background. When I say “torture myself” what I mean is that I’ve encountered something in Kiryas Yoel that I haven’t encountered in any other Chassidic community to this extent. The people stare, and boy do they stare. I guess I look yeshivish. Brim down on the hat, short beard, no peyos, and a tie. But it is obvious that there really aren’t many visitors to Kiryas Yoel, because it is not uncommon for a man, little boy, little girl on the street to turn his or her head a full 180 degrees as you pass them by. Guess they just can’t believe the site of it.

Out of four trips, despite the usual stares, this is the first time that I had a really bad experience. For starters, I was glad that Miriam posted a video of “the other side of Breslov” a couple of months ago on Shearim. The Rabbi I stay by was also hosting five Breslovers, four of whom were from Beit Shemesh. If you think the opposite of everything you know about Breslov, this was these people. Instigators, provocateurs, insolent, and downright rude to their host. Nothing in Kiryas Yoel seemed to live up to their standards. They questioned the local hechsher, which resulted in a heated argument. One guy went on the tirade about the mikvah in the main shul, because it’s not open 24 hours a day. “In Beit Shemesh you would never see such a thing!” he said, as he waved his arm in the air. Was he planning on going in the middle of the night to the mikvah? Probably not. He did, however, have controversy written all over his face from the second he walked in the door. In Beit Shemesh, he said, all mikvaos are open 24/7. Nothing really seemed to live up to his Beit Shemesh standards.


One of the Breslovers brought along his wilfe, and I was disgusted by the way he treated her. There were about 20 people present for each meal, and women sat at the other end of the room. I kept looking over at his wife. She obviously didn’t hit it off with the Satmar women, and sat for most of the five hours or so of meals with her head in her hands. The couple must have just been married, as they looked very young. But it didn’t occur even once over all of these hours for this man to check on his wife; to go over, and say hi; to give her a little wave. He was too wrapped up in starting trouble. All I could say is that I was happy that four out of five Breslovers davened at the Breslover shul. Kiryas Yoel does in fact have a Breslover shul, and a Neturai Karta shul, as well. In fact, there are 66 shuls and shtieblach there in all.

Just a quick story: a Lubavitcher cousin of mine used to go regularly to the village to visit a friend for shabbos. The last time they had a bumper sticker on their car in support of the people of Gush Katif. This was a number of years ago. They happened to be staying next door to the Neturai Karta shul. Friday night when they walked out the house, the car was surrounded by children. They were daring each other to touch the bumper sticker. By the end of shabbos the car was completely covered by table clothes, and the kids were still standing around the car inventing games. Who would lift the table cloth in the back of the car to look at the bumper sticker. Who was actually daring enough to touch the bumper sticker. Back to the Breslovers for a minute, there was one from Tzfas, who was quite easy-going and friendly, unlike the others.

There is no real Friday night tisch by Reb Aharon. The Rebbe talks informally with a couple of hundred bachurim. There isn’t much singing. The Rebbe mainly talks Torah. The shalous sheudos tisch is a different story. I’ve been to five or six of the big tischen around New York and in Eretz Yisroel, but never before have I seen so much disrespect for the idea of a tisch and for the Rebbe as in Kiryas Yoel. The singing is rushed and disorganized. There are special forenches (bleachers) set up for the ketanim, as in 5 or 6 years old, and by the time the sound from the other end of the large shul reaches them, and they are there trying to keep up with the niggun, the people at the other end of the big shul are already on the next phrase. The result is a big mish-mosh of sound. I know at least two of the niggunim that they sing weekly at the tisch, and I wasn’t even able to make them out. In addition, many people talk, and some even scream to be heard over the noise of the singing. But the big shock comes in the middle. When the Rebbe starts to speak, people start clearing out. Almost 75% of the people walk out, noisily.

At this tisch the Rebbe talks in very, very lofty tones. Friday night he speaks very informally, but at the shalous sheudos tisch it is an experience just to listen to him. His voice starts off very high at the beginning of each phrase, as if it’s about to crack, and with each few words his voice gets lower. I don’t understand much Yiddish, but I was taken enough with his lofty style of speaking that I decided to stay, unlike many. But that’s when the trouble started.


The shalous sheudos tisch in Satmar is in the dark, as in many other places, but never before have I seen what I later learned was the Vaad HaZnius patrolling the tisch with flashlights. Two men walk around, and shine the lights in random peoples’ faces. But not for a second or two. Sometimes they will keep the light in someone’s face for about 10 seconds or so, when the person is only trying to listen to the Rebbe. I asked my host, of course, later what this was all about, and he said that this was very, very important. It’s to make sure that nothing illegal goes on at the tisch in the dark.
Have they had problems in the past? What was going on? Drug use? Bochurim touching each other under the forenches? Obviously they’ve had problems in the past. When the flashlight came to my face something strange happened. It didn’t move! They guy with the flashlight didn’t move the flashlight out of my face. Did I look like a trouble maker? I couldn’t believe it. Just because I looked a little different? I had no choice but to climb over the bench, and leave the tisch. Very upsetting at the least.

Despite some bad incidents I will go back, but maybe not for about a year. What I like most about Satmar is the davening. I haven’t found any other Chassidic group that davens with such enthusiasm as Satmar. You could argue Stolin, but for some it’s a bit much, and could leave you with a headache if you’re not used to their style. Satmar for me is the most passionate davening, and as a ba’al teshuvah, it provides me with a good dose of chizuk each time I go.


The first Satmar Rebbe said that Kiryas Yoel has the same kedusha as Yerushalayim. I don’t know about that, but a feeling of kedusha is evident.

15 comments:

  1. B"H

    1. What kind of Breslovers were they ?

    2. Why did you leave the Seudat Shlishit ? If the flashlight remains in one's face does this mean he has to leave ?

    I would have stayed until they really kick me out !!!

    When I went to Rebbe Aharon's Tish in Bnei Brak last fall, no one stared (although I look more national religious than haredi), the Satmarer women spoke Hebrew with me (not English or Yiddish) and no one walked around with a flashlight.:-)

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  2. The flashlight at a tish is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard.

    If you can't trust these people in the dark "Open the Lights".

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  3. These were far from Na Na Nachmans or anything of the sort. Not the type involved in any sort of kiruv either. I got the feeling that they didn't get out of their little enclave in Beit Shemesh very much. Their peyos were the longest I've ever seen, down to their chests. The one Breslover from Tzfas was also looked like them, but he happened to be of the opposite personality, warm, spiritual, friendly.

    In Bnei Brak it's different. There are many litvish there. They're used to seeing different types of people. In Kiryas Yoel you don't really see anyone except chassidim.

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  4. B"H

    I have never been to New York but don't Chassidim go out. I mean leave Kiryat Yoel, Williamsburgh, Boro Park or Crown Heights and go somewhere else. On vacation, visiting family, I don't know what.

    Is everyone stuck in his own little neighbourhood ?
    Even Mea Shearim goes out: to Bnei Brak or different Kivrei Zaddikim (graves of famous rabbis), etc.

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  5. Boro Park people are tolerant, because lots of different people live in Boro Park: Litvish, goyim, and others. New Square is very tolerant because it is their policy to invite people from outside of the community. In fact, every motzei shabbos, the Rebbe opens up his house to all the visitors of New Square for that shabbos. He'll stay up until everyone who wants to see him sees him. He also opens up his house on Sunday night for anyone from outside of New Square who wants to consult with him or needs medical advice. Kiryas Yoel is pretty isolated. Williamsburg has a goyish side, so I imagine that they're used to seeing different types of people. And Crown Heights, of course, is half Lubavitch, half African American, so no problem there.

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  6. B"H

    But still ... people have to do something in the outside world. Let's say dealing with authorities, going to the bank, to a certain hospital.

    It seems to be a kind of "protecting the children" but everyone should realize that we are not alone in this world and not everything is holy.

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  7. The flashlight thing was surely strange--but maybe they were just seeing if you really were interested in the rebbe. Perhaps if you had not had the bad experience with the na nas it would not have seemed so intimidating. I am used to being stared at as I don't fit any look, but generally once people get past the stares they are friendly. If you like the rebbe--keep going!

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  8. My friend told me yesterday that when he left Kiras Yoel after a short stay with his family, his son told him, "Tatty I forgot how the goyim look".

    Everyone there is chassidish from the people working in the hospital to the people in the bank. The only non Jew's you see is if a woman needs to travel by car and they bring in a goyish woman taxi driver from outside kiras yoel.

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  9. B"H

    I think it is a mistake raising children like that. One has to refer to other people as well.

    The justification may be that, only after a certain age, the children come in contact with the outside world. However, doesn't any of the children's parents teach the kids not to stare ?

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  10. I guess the point is they come into contact with the goyim once they are adults and not so impressionable - however, there is faults in this also - let's face it, there's faults in most things, and everyone has to do their best.

    I would love to go to kiras yoel

    And the staring thing? Let's face it - it's not just the kids!

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  11. B"H

    As someone else already commented: Let them stare ! After a while they get used to you and stop.

    Each of us as an outsider is facing this problem and in the meantime, I don't care anymore but just walk in.

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  12. Just to clarify, they were not na na nachman's. They were just the opposite of those types of Breslovers. They dressed like regular chassidim except that their peyos was much longer.

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  13. Mr. Anonymous, surely you're smart enough to realize that it's a little difficult to listen to the Rebbe when a flashlight is being shined in your face from ten feet away! Don't try to make excuses for the va'ad hatznius. What they do to outsiders is wrong.

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  14. so did we ever figure out why they have flash lights??? drug deals or bochrim being naughty?

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  15. Well it's known that prostitution is a problem in communities like Williamsburg and Boro Park. Maybe there too. Maybe they have a woman hiding under the forenches, and they take turns. Just kidding of course, but not kidding about the other neighborhoods.

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