Tuesday, September 16, 2008

Kiruv Lie ?

B"H

A young woman who is also a Baalat Teshuva (a born Jew who became religious later on in his life) complained to me that Jews who obviously know something about their religion (like me) should avoid telling newcomers to religion about society problems. She claimed that a religious Jew and familiar with all kinds of frum Jewish societies would scare away a secular Jew who decides to learn more about his own heritage.
"You cannot confront a newcomer to religion with certain negative statements", the young woman told me.

Just to give you a brief practical example:
An American teenage girl had asked me about the meaning of all those Fakshivilim (news posters) on the walls of the ultra - orthodox Mea Shearim neighbourhood. I tried to explain everything to her very slowly. The girl also asked me about what it says on these posters. So, I explained her that sometimes there are rabbis who don't really behave according to Halacha and do the opposite of what they are supposed to do.

Someone standing next to us complained that we cannot tell the truth to 20 - year - old young secular Jews. Maybe they are just starting their first steps learning more and maybe eventually becoming a Baal Teshuva. Instead we should encourage them and let them know something positive.

On the one hand, the person complaining was right; being involved into Kiruv (bringing secular Jews closer to religious Judaism and, thus, to G - d) means telling people something positive. But on the other hand, the young girl had asked me a specific question and I felt obligated to answer her with easy explanations. And why, at all, should we only mention positive things ?

A young Israeli girl told me that her brother is very much involved in doing Kiruv. By the way, Kiruv in a Jewish sense doesn’t mean "missionizing". Kiruv means, among other things, going maybe to some Chabad or Aish HaTorah shiurim (lectures). Start learning Yiddishkeit (Judaism) or at least something about one's own religion. There are plenty of institutions offering classes to newcomers.

Bringing someone closer to religion also means answering plenty of questions. In most cases, the Kiruvnik doesn't expect a person being interested in learning to become frum. If you start learning, you are not expected to move to Boro Park or Mea Shearim the next day. And if a Kiruvnik does expect this from newcomers, it shows that he is the wrong person and a teacher without compassion and responsibility.

The young Israeli woman, however, claimed that her brother lies. The whole Kiruv business would be just a great lie. People only tell the greatest things about being religious. A secular Jew really interested in Judaism would thus get a false impression. A perfect dream world or illusion about haredi life. Who tells him that not everything is so perfect ? Who tells him about society problems and that he, the potential Baal Teshuva, might be not too accepted from born Haredim ? In other words, who tells the potential Baal Teshuva about reality and daily life ? And if someone does, then he only mentions a few minor issues.

And her brother himself says that he lies.
He has to in order not to scare people away.

Should someone involved in Kiruv tell the truth or rather not ?

"Guys, religion, Mitzwot, G - d, everything is just such an amazing but be aware of the fact that reality isn't always lik living in a wonderland. There are some criminal rabbis and not everybody always loves you. In other words, you as a newcomer have to fight your way through".

Who can be told such a statement and when ?

Not right away or maybe yes ?

I think that it very much depends on someone's personality and whoever decides to get closer to G - d or become frum, usually realizes by himself what is going on in his environment.

Let's assume that a certain Kiruv program doesn't prepare the newcomer for the life after the program; the daily life in the outside world. The program should at least provide professional teachers who are able to help the Baal Teshuva in case he is facing problems. The newly religious needs conversation partners and plenty of advice of how others mastered such and such a situation.

Last Shabbat, Rabbi Mordechai Machlis told us the following story:

A few years ago, the Machlises let a young Filipino staying in their house. He had come to Jerusalem in order to participate in a conversion course to Judaism. The Filipino passed the Beit Din and was so proud of being part of the Jewish people, but soon he became frustrated. He wore Zizit but wherever he went, religious Jews asked him if he is really Jewish or just a fake. Outsiders immediately noticed that he is a Filipino and people from the Philippines are not necessarily expected to be Jewish.
Rabbi Machlis said that one day, the guy came home crying and said that he is so tired and sick of justifying himself.

What is the answer ?

There is no perfect answer because every convert to Judaism as well as a Baal Teshuva has to fight his way through.

The remaining question:
Should newcomers to religion should be told the truth from the beginning or rather not ?

I believe they should be but in stages and not everything at once. Give them some time to settle and only then they are able to grasp everything else.

11 comments:

  1. Is what your saying unique to Eretz Yisroel? Its interesting to read about this notion that to make up for lost time, Baal Teshuvas are going "all the way", as in becoming Haredi. This lifestyle is of course not for everyone, and could be even more destructive than the B.T.'s former life. Many people can live happy lifes in other frum circles that arent necessarily Haredi, or even more on the ultra religious side, not Mea Sharim or Bnei Brak.

    I think people that read your blog get a feeling that it is impossible to integrate into Haredi lifestyle. Impossible no, difficult yes. Like I have said before if you want to live in the Haredi neighborhood you need to be just that. You cant wear the shtreimel and have the high speed internet and satellite dish too. Its really easy to look ultra orthodox, and even in public act like you are, but when you try to be something you arent people will catch on sooner or later.

    Also there is this idea that Haredi communities arent accepting and you have to "fight" your way in.

    My question is, are non religious, or non jewish communities more accepting? You make it sound like they greet you with flowers and a parade and when you get into Geula, ever step forward you make people run inside and bolt their doors.

    Just like anything in Yiddishkite, if its something of worth it takes time. Its not that Kiruv groups are lying to B.T.'s its that there are more important things to learn about than posters on the wall and how certain pockets of Jews act. Learning halacha, torah, and just about yourself and how you are able to handle your new found responsibilities as a Jew.

    Letting Jews know about certain Jews that wont accept them at all or right away isnt going to deter them because of two reasons

    a) Their return to Hashem is not about being "accepted" by Man its about being accepted by Hashem

    b) These people (at least in America) went to High school, they were apart of social groups. They understand that not everyone is going to accept them, and to think just because you are Jewish that all Jews will love you makes you either a complete idiot or just ignorant.

    Look at history to show how Jews have been not accepting Jews since Joshua led them into Israel.

    This isnt and should be a main focus of Kiruving Jews back to Hashem because its mishugas and nothing more.

    After spending time in Bnei Brak in a very haredi Chassidic community I realized that the only thing holding me back was the language barrier. This was across the board. The Bishtina Rebbe (hes not so well known outside of Bnei Brak) told me I just need to learn Yiddish and Heberew. He pointed to a Chasid at the table and said "See him? He came from Baltimore, and the Chasid next to him was from New York. They are now part of this community."

    It made me realized that if you are genuine Hashem will place you where you belong and if your are able to handle such a level of observance then that is where you will be.

    If you cant be accepted in a Haredi community its not the Haredi Jews fault, its because Hashem knows you best and knows you wont reach your full potential there.

    Its all in Hashems hands.

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  2. I think that in this situation the issue is that if a person is new to learning Torah and Yiddishkeit they are not fully informed about Haredi society and thus to give them a negative view is actually more biased than to give them no view at all. Of course Jewish society isn't perfect! If it were then Moshiach would already have come and we wouldn't be having this conversation. That being said, I think that most people in the world who are well informed on the subject will tell you that Haredi society is far better of than most other social groups. Everything being equal, Haredi society, even if it is imperfect, lacks many of the negative social characteristics that so many other societies are currently enthralled with. For a person new to yiddishkeit it is possibly very misleading to talk with them about the negative aspects of Jewish culture, beside the fact that to do so is to ignore Shmiras Halashon, because for them it is not a matter of choosing a society that is "perfect" but a society that is better than the status quo. Plus, for someone who is entrenched in Haredi society to tell someone else about the negative aspects of Haredi society is biased because the Haredi person does not have a objective opinion since they are nearly never exposed to the society within which the secular Jew grew-up.

    The above might sound very philosophical so I will try and give a practical example in order to illustrate my point. Say a young, secular Jewish girl from New York is in Meah Shearim looking at Fakshivilim and let's say that you explain to her that these Rabbis are accusing another set of Rabbis of not going by halachah according to their opinion. What is going on here? Essentially, these Fakshivilim are arguing about the proper way of serving Hashem. While it might seem negative that one group of Rabbis is calling another group of Rabbi apikorsim it is all connected to the desire for the truth to be fleshed out and yidden to follow the proper derekh. Now compare this to what this young, secular Jewish girl might see in her hometown of New York as she walks down the street. The closest thing to fakshivilim in New York is probably newspaper stands and the ridiculous number of tabloids that fill them. What is the point of discussion in these tabloids aka American fakshivilim? Nothing but completely disparaging comments about this or that celebrity and telling this same precious Jewish girl that she should do whatever it takes to be good looking even if it means eating absolutely nothing, vomiting after every meal, and having plastic surgery. Now the defender of American society might try and tell you that it is simply an expression of American consumer culture and there is nothing inherently wrong with such tabloids littering every newsstand. Logically speak they are absolutely correct! But, a simply person looking at the two different societies, Meah Shearim and secular New York, should be able to see that Meah Shearim is easily the better option if your aim is to live a mentally healthy life with a good family, but if your goal is to live a life centered around materialistic acquisitions and be more beautiful than every other woman then secular New York is probably the better choice.

    Thus, it would seem that the real issue is that explaining what the fakshivilim are talking about without going into the reason that these fakshivilim even exist is an incorrect portrayal of what is going on. So for a person who is not familiar with Jewish culture will relate it to what they know and that is tabloids spewing false rumors about celebrities for no reason other than the celebrity is a celebrity. Consequently, they would be totally wrong about the nature of fakshivilim.

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  3. B"H

    @Long Beach Chassid

    For many years I have been dealing with Baalei Teshuva, spoke to them and can confirm their reports from my personal experience.

    It has nothing to do with giving the impression that BTs in haredi society wouldn't been accepted at all. The point is not to get too carried away and start your life in a dream world.

    Let's say someone is a BT:
    Israeli reality is that a BT does get accepted up to a certain point. But this stops when it comes to Shidduchim. And, as someone pointed out in my German blog, getting invited into haredi families doesn't mean "accepted". Do you know how much, at least Israeli Haredim, talk behind your back ?

    A newcomer has to fight his way through. Of course, it is easier living in a Jerusalem neighbourhood where there are many BTs. As soon as you are part of a regular haredi neighbourhood your neighbours talk. For them your are and you will be a Baal Teshuva.

    There are differences and many people in society let you feel it.

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  4. B"H

    I do agree with you that one cannot explain the meaning of a Fakshivili within a few minutes. It wasn't too good that the subject being discussed on the Fakshivilim was the issue regarding Rabbi Rabinovitch.

    The girl was interested and after Shabbat, even tried to make notes. Nevertheless, I saw myself that she wouldn't understand the whole meaning so I tried to cut it short.

    In my opinion, BTs should be told what is going on. At least in Israel, in many cases this is not even necessary because people already make their own experiences in their early stages.

    It doesn't mean that the whole society is just rude to a newcomer; however, it does mean that everyone should face reality and know where one's limits are.

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  5. B"H

    @Long Beach Chassid

    I thought about a story in order to explain more precisly what I actually mean.

    Some years ago, I had a flatmate who had converted to Judaism. She did anything you can imagine to get accepted by chassidic society. I could write novels about all the tries and procedures.

    One day, she got a phone call from a woman belonging to a certain chassidic group who invited my flatmate to a family Simcha. My flatmate went ballistic because she saw the moment coming closer to get accepted. "Wow, a personal invitation from a Chassidiah".

    So, my flatemate occupied our tiny kitchen for the following days until the Simcha. She started baking more than ten cakes. The whole kitchen looked like a bakery.

    The third flatmate and I helped her carrying all the cakes downstairs into the trunk of her car.
    We actually told her that there was definitely no need for food, as the family had catering and everything. However, my flatmate baked out of excitement.

    The next day she came back. And guess what:
    We had to unload all the cakes. Every single cake !
    None of the other guests including the family members had touched anything she had baked.
    I felt very sorry for her although she shouldn't have done so in the first place.

    Furthermore, our neighbours from upstairs (born Chassidim) told me that they do NOT touch any food cooked by converts or Baalei Teshuva.
    So, I started a whole discussion with the neighbour in the staircase but I couldn't change her mind.

    You know, it is these little tiny things and hints which make you upset as a newcomer. They are like an arrow right into the heart.

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  6. You have more experience as I dont live in Israel, but I do know many B.T.s that are accepted in Haredi societies.

    I firmly believe it is who you are that makes you "accepted, gossiped about etc.

    Lets take two B.T. scenarios.

    Scenario A.

    Someone becomes a B.T. spends a couple years learning through books and the internet about yiddishkite, goes to his local chabad, then after 3 or so years decides to move into Mea Sharim and find himself a frum wife.

    Scenario B.

    Someone becomes a B.T. and then spends 3-4 years in a yeshiva learning and then moves to Mea Sharim and to find a wife.

    Now neither is guarenteed to bring about success, but I believe that Scenario B has much better of a chance.

    If you are a Torah Scholar most people wont care if you are a B.T. Its all depends on how you act, what you SAY. what you say is the most important. If you are going to be Haredi you have to, and I think people try hard to be and slip up and Haredi Jews arent going to have any of that.

    If someone is going to marry off their child just to gossip about them behind their back that is silly.

    In the end Hashem will judge all of this mishugas and these Neshamot will be send back down to do it all over again. Maybe even putting them in the bodies of Jews that will have to become B.T.'s themselves.

    I dont know the type of B.T.'s you meet but I think that not everyone is cut out to be an ultra orthodox Jew, and when you start to slip people will see it and unfortunately speak lashon hora

    I see from your blog that this is an issue, and agree. I think we just disagree on how big the issue is. Still though you are in there in person daily and I was only in it for 5 weeks.

    iy"H there is hope! may Hashem open their eyes.

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  7. B"H

    As a BT, I wouldn't necessarily move to Mea Shearim.:-)))

    As far as I know, Israeli reality is like this:

    You can be a great BT, a great Torah scholar, but I haven't heard about any BT Talmid Chacham, taking over a great halachic position.

    Just look at Rabbi Eliezer Berland from Breslov. He is a great scholar but wasn't born into the original Breslover Mea Shearim world. For years, the born - Breslov - community refused him until Berland finally founded his own Yeshiva (in the Arab Quarter of the Old City).

    But he is not the only one, as many BTs in Breslov got frustrated.

    I am not saying that all BTs are generally not accepted. Chas veChalilah.

    I think that is depends on your personality, how you deal with the situations and how you relate to people. There are accepted BTs, indeed.

    On the other hand, and I love to see both sides, a BT shouldn't live in an illusion. Many times he thinks that sitting at a Mea Shearim Shabbes table makes him the most accepted person in the world.

    And you are right:
    In the end, only G - d decides !!!

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  8. That is a sad story. I guess I will have to experience this when we move iy"H to Israel next year and invite someone to eat for Shabbos. I find that hard to believe that it is across the board. There needs to be real sociology work done on this topic because asking even 100 people isnt going to give you a true idea of the situation.

    Very interesting though. very.

    How did you try to explain to the neighbor upstairs?

    Did you tell her that is violation of the Torah? That she violates upwards to 4 commandments to respect, accept, and not judge a convert let alone a born Jew! Maybe her husband should read the Gemara to her about what she is saying. Or read Rambams letter he sent to a Ger who was a chief rabbi in africa (i cant remember where exactly)

    You know moshiach is coming because at the hells of moshiach people wont be allowed to convert anymore.

    Look how easy it was to convert 2000, 1000, 500, even 200 years ago. Now its near impossible.

    Its interesting that this is the case when there are bies dins in mea sharim that do conversions. It takes about 4 years but if you convert through them, you are a Jew in any community vs if you converted in America or through the Rabbinate.

    This is all interesting im curious to hear more experiences now.

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  9. B"H

    @Long Beach Chasid

    Mazel Tov to your Aliyah plans !!!!

    Well, you won't change society here. This is just the way it is and in Israel, every citizen is categorized according to something.

    You wear a Kipa or a skirt, then you are religious.

    A woman wears pants, then she is secular.

    You are left - wing, right - wing, secular, haredi, national religious, divorced, married, single ... anything you won't. Society as a whole jugdes you. That's Israel.

    And the local haredi society has it own rules and one of those rules is that there are Haredim born that way and there are others.

    You can try to make it better or quote others anything from the Talmud you like, but you won't change society.

    Ejn Ma La'asot
    אין מה לעשות , as we say in Hebrew.

    There is nothing you can do about it.

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  10. Nothing is impossible, but I dont have big plans to start a revolution. If someone wants to condescend to me though, they will be politely and kindly put back in their place.

    Its just so interesting. My children will be FFB but will they be accepted or are they in the category of FFB with BT parents. I guess my grandchildren will finally be accepted. Wild. It will take 4 generations to be accepted again by the Torah Observant Jews, and that is how many generations it was until my parents did teshuva.

    It is all from Hashem.

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  11. B"H

    The same neighbours I mentioned in connection with my former flatmate once told me that there is a Beit Yaakov for kids from Baalei Teshuva.

    I sounds logical but I cannot say for sure if they are right. They claimed that children from newly BTs cannot be send to a normal Beit Yaakov or Talmud Torah, as they don't know anything.

    However, there are also Batei Yaakov for Sephardi girls, so nothing is impossible.

    At the very beginning as being a BT, I really tried my best but after a while I was just sick of all the efforts. It has nothing to do with bad experiences or so; I was just sick of making an impression and rather prefered to be as I am. And since I am not running after making impressions and constantly prooving how "great" I am, my life is much happier.

    I might be not accepted but hopefully at least G - d does.:-))

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